When your product outpaces your brand, it's a signal — not a crisis. After a decade of building, Seamless recognized that gap and decided to do something about it.
In this episode of The Debrief, Focus Lab CEO Bill Kenney sits down with Jonathan Pogact, VP of Marketing, and Philip LaChance, Principal Designer at Seamless, to relive their 8+ month rebrand journey — from building the internal case to launching a brand that finally matched the company they'd become.
In this episode, you'll hear:
→ How to recognize when it's time to rebrand
→ Why choosing the right agency partner is about vibes as much as craft
→ What it takes to champion a long, multi-stakeholder rebrand from start to finish
→ What the internal ROI of a rebrand feels like on the other side of launch
If you're a B2B marketing or design leader watching your competitive edge become table stakes, you'll be taking notes on this one.
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Episode Resources
→ Check out Seamless in action
→ Read "Conquer Your Rebrand"
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Full Transcript
[Bill Kenney]
Hey everyone, this is Bill Kenney, CEO and co-founder of Focus Lab, a global B2B branding agency. I'm back with another episode of The Debrief. We just wrapped up a long engagement with our partner, Seamless, and today I am sitting down with their head of design and their head of marketing to relive that project.
This is literally why we do this series. It is important for us to discuss and share with you all what really goes into these projects more than what makes it into a case study, right? The nuances and the emotional aspects, the friction, the challenges that show up, because there's always challenges, right?
These projects are not easy. They can be very subjective, while they're meant to be very objective. It is tough navigating those two worlds in a single project over eight to nine months. So today, Phil, John, and I, we sit down and we relive the Seamless project from start to finish. What mattered in a partnership, what they were looking for, what were their pain points, specifically within the brand, and what created friction in our process, right?
I told them to speak freely. Quote, also what was most rewarding and now how they're feeling at the end of this. I hope you enjoy it.
[Bill Kenney]
Alright, gentlemen. Welcome to the show, as we call it, The Debrief. We're here for that reason, we're gonna relive the Seamless rebrand.
Did y'all call it a rebrand? I mean, it was very much a rebrand. I know our partners can sometimes get stuck on the, well, it's a refresh. It's not a rebrand. This was a straight up rebrand for sure. I see Philip's actually rocking the old stuff, so.
[Philip LaChance]
I've been trying to kill this magnifying glass man for so long that we've had refreshes before, historically. In 10 years, this was the first time we did a full rebrand. Like we're going balls to the wall basically.
[Bill Kenney]
Hell yeah. Well, I'm excited to relive that. Both of you were huge parts of the project, but before we get into that, you wanna take a second and maybe each of you can just introduce yourself? Get into what you do, so the people listening and watching can relate to the like, oh, I do those types of things at my job.
[Jonathan Pogact]
I'll kick it off. Jonathan Pogact, I'm VP of Marketing at Seamless. I've been at the company for about five and a half years. My team. You see Phil over there as well helps generate demand, brand, and revenue for our growing organization that helps support salespeople to hit their number and we're the world's best data and automation.
[Bill Kenney]
How many team members now total?
[Jonathan Pogact]
We're about 300.
[Bill Kenney]
Okay. Awesome. That's a fun stage. All right, Philip.
[Philip LaChance]
Perfect. Yeah, so I'm Phil LaChance, I'm the lead designer here at Seamless. I've been here for eight years now, coming up in September. I feel like I got my MBA by working at Seamless, but yeah, everything brand design wise, I mean recruiting, anything that needs an image, I've probably been the guy and then we had product designers who are focused solely on the platform, so it's been a really cool experience.
[Bill Kenney]
Hell yeah. That's, that's the real MBA, right? That's where you're actually seeing where the rubber hits the road. Awesome. Alright, so again, we're gonna relive our partnership, but I wanna be very clear. The context here is so that other people in marketing, slash design, slash creative, can hear from you all the realities of these types of projects, right? There will be a case study for this and it will look beautiful and we'll all celebrate it together and it will be the final outcome. But I do this series specifically so we can understand what it's like to both start that journey, then we'll get into the realities of these projects, both the good and the hard, because those always show up, and then we'll kind of get to the back end of that.
So the first question is kind of like I said, how did you know it was time to rebrand and get rid of the logo that Philip is wearing now, among other things, because a rebrand is not a logo. What was the catalyst?
[Jonathan Pogact]
So the company was born in 2018. You know, Brandon, our founder and CEO, created the product out of necessity. He was a serial salesperson and had access to really bad data across the world, and he needed the right contact data in order to do his job, right, which is to sell.
The company evolved since then, one of the earlier adopters in ai, but when people think of brand, they think like, oh, some people think of website, right? Or, oh, you got a new logo. Great job. Congratulations. This really was a true rebrand. Even, even go as far as saying rebuild to where, you know, we looked inside of ourselves and said, you know what? We've had the same core values, value proposition, mission for the last eight years, right?
And yeah, by the way, that hourglass doesn't fit very nicely in any creative, of course. Phil will probably give background on that. I don't remember if that was 99 designs or if that was Upwork or something like that. Right. But got us to where we are today. So there's an homage to the brand, there's respect to the brand, but our product evolved to the point to where our mission, vision, value prop didn't match the product, and the product was outpacing the brand, so we just had to play catch up.
[Bill Kenney]
You know that that exact term you just finished with the product is outpacing the brand. I heard that exact line from a CMO that is starting their project with us this week. As I met with him, Hey, so like, what's the catalyst? Our product is massively outpacing our brand. I think that's the nature of the world we live in right now.
[Jonathan Pogact]
And it's changing fast.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. Go ahead, Phil.
[Philip LaChance]
Yeah. For me, you know, I'm coming from the visual design aspect of it. I was trying to think of how do we get to the next level? We had just done, you know, 10 months of a brand refresh in 2024. We kind of let that hold us on just in 2025, AI in the competitive space we are in is just rampant.
Your moat is no longer your moat. You're like, how are we gonna differentiate from everybody else that's all saying the same things? I'm a big active reader and I don't know how it came up. It must have been some good marketing on your end, but your book came up, and your book I think is that it says, conquer your rebrand and build a B2B brand it was just funny. It was word for word what I was trying to figure out. So I was like, all right, let me read it. I read it at the very beginning of January, and that was when the wording of which you were saying was spot on to the exact problem we're having.
It literally said, after 10 years of the same company rebrand, you're like, oh, how do I make the next jump? You guys knew. It just naturally happens. So I made a little pitch deck and we went through a really deep process to kind of figure out, how do we level up? I felt like we provided so much value to our customers and I felt like the brand did not match that at all. And for me that was painful because I also feel, as a designer, that reflects me and I was like, okay, I want us to be top tier because I think I'm top tier.
I think John's top tier, I think all their leaders and everyone around them, are really excellent at their jobs. But I felt like the brand was kind of holding us back. So I was ready for that jump.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, it's kind of, you can imagine like, I think maybe a lot of towns and neighborhoods have this, they have that restaurant that's really great, but it kind of looks crappy from the exterior, so nobody walks in. What a shame it is for that restaurant and that chef that's like, my food is really good, but man, I can't get people through the door. They don't trust it.
Phil, the next question, you kind of, you segued well, and I'm, I'm curious now I'm extra curious. I always lead with, what were you looking for in a partner and how did you find that person? We all know it was us. Now it's obvious, but I suspect that book had a heavy influence. So talk a little bit about that then.
[Philip LaChance]
Yeah. For me, it's funny, I had heard of you guys before a few years earlier when you did the Salesloft rebrand.
[Bill Kenney]
Okay. Yep.
[Philip LaChance]
Big widespread, like that was a, they had a really big lightning strike that you everyone saw. I don't even know if I knew it was your company at the time, but that stuck with me.
So when I was doing my research, I really do think the book just came up. I don't know how your website came up, but then when I saw it, I aligned immediately. Like, oh, I've seen the quality of what they did. Because I think our original thing was like, oh, Salesloft looks like a banking company?
To know their valuation just quadrupled and they're just taking over like, okay, hold up. Okay, maybe there's something to hiring an expert. But yeah, we've hired contractors and agencies before and it was always like, not cookie cutter, but like, kind of like, you know, they help you do the website designs, they kind of help you do advertising and it's really kind of like you work closely with our team in Slack. And that's basically it. I really wanted us to have like, okay, everyone needs to like go sit in a room together and really we know what the business is trying to be and then let's wrap the brand around the business first.
So like the new brand, and then we can wrap that on top, and then it makes my life and everyone else's easier.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, well said. Jonathan, what were you looking for specifically? What was gonna be really important to you?
[Jonathan Pogact]
Um, doing a rebrand is a big bet, right? Very few people spend, in our roles, as much time and of course, money and investment on seeing something through that completely changes the DNA of the company. Maybe not the DNA, everything else other than DNA, right? DNA is still still there, but, it's a big risk, right?
And as a marketing leader, as the budget holder, the name's on the line. Right. And I think sometimes there's this balance between execs that want to take the safe bet, right? That's where that term like nobody got fired for hiring. IBM. I don't know if people still say that, but they certainly did when I was growing up.
They want to create the safe bet, right? Nobody wants to get canned for doing something and making a mistake, and at the same time they wanna be bold about it. So generally what a lot of folks do in SaaS and I'm sure other agencies, they look for companies that look like them. And they say, well, who else has done these things before, right? Who's the best in SaaS? Who's done this for companies we recognize, because there's a layer of trust there.
Phil brought together a great business case, of course, and kind of went through some of the options that we had and we had these one-on-one conversations, and I think that's really where the rubber meets the road.
It's not, can they do a great job? Because I think any of the agencies we spoke to could have done an amazing job. Can they do the right job, and then can we work together? That’s really the thing. Can we live with each other for the next 10 months, right? Eight months, whatever, and that's both ways, right?
You want to be able to live with us, we want to be able to live with you. And if there's not just no vibe, it's gonna be tough. Like we're gonna regret it. so part of it was that. Just having that initial conversation, we left and we were like, wow. That's pretty cool. And by the way, they work with Salesloft — Seamless integrates with SalesLoft.
They're a partner of ours. They worked with Customer.io — they're in the same exact portfolio we're in. You know, there's all these things there. You work with ClickFunnels, we love ClickFunnels, right? Or we used to use ClickFunnels a lot growing up. So there was all of that proximity at play that really made it an easier, safer decision.
And just having those conversations, not only with the team, but also with you. You know, I think one of the most important conversations was getting the CEO on board. This is his baby, right? That one-on-one with you, specifically with us out of the room? I was willing to accept whatever was gonna happen.
He was either gonna feel great about it and endorse it or, not his thing, not endorsing yet. We're moving forward and I was gonna be okay with either one. I'm glad it worked out.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, I remember the call. I enjoyed it. I remember how curious he was in challenging the Salesloft rebrand. Saying things like, I remember when I saw it. I hated it. Why did y'all go with green? Right? It is like, I love those conversations. I don't have to be protective of it. It is not my identity as a human being. Uh, and I think probably what he experienced too is like, oh, I could go on a journey with these people and, for me, I don't wanna say which is the most important kind of USP that you just named, but for me that is very high on the list, if not the most important, because you're totally right. There's a ton of capable agencies from a craft perspective. But as we all know, and we're gonna get into now in the next set of questions like it is the people factor that actually really shows up in the moments that matter, and you really need both. And we put a lot of, obviously, emphasis and energy into the people factor.
So I'm glad you y'all could pick that up early in the quote unquote sales process. So let's go there then. So, okay, we're in the project. You read the book. I mean, if y'all didn't go through the perfect funnel, I don't know, right? Like you found the book, you came to us, we wooed you from a people perspective. Great. We've started the project, now we kick it off and we go on this long journey. I mean, it was months, right? These things take a while, even if just purely from iteration and feedback cycles, right? And it's funny, some clients, oh, I wanna be done in three to four weeks. It's like, you're not gonna be able to pick stuff in four weeks. Even if we could do it all, you will not be able to make decisions that fast. So on that journey, now let's talk about two things. Let's start, let's start with the hard parts from each of you. What do you think was the most challenging aspect of the whole project? Speak freely.
[Philip LaChance]
Yeah, on my end I would say it's the things you guys did great, that that was most important is often it's you get in the room and it's like, let's say we have a Slack channe;, there’s 20 people in the Slack channel, and you can't make a decision. We just spin in circles. You guys made it where it's like, yeah, there's no more than five people in here.
You got a driver and you had these four executives and we all sat in a room and had to do this stuff. I mean, it was week over week, so think about how to, I'd have Mondays, we'd have internal reviews. Tuesdays we'd have reviews with your team. Fridays, you guys have deliverables and there'd be other questions going on, and then it'd be weekends texting our team to kind of, Hey, you gotta review this Loom, get it done.
It was very, just constant, and think about how these executives have such big roles and goals that they have to hit themselves, that this rebrand to them is probably not like their number one priority on their list. So that was just the battle of just going back and forth, and then making decisions where I can think of myself as a lead designer that maybe I have the most expertise visually, but also there's gonna be other questions like, this is also not my company. Like John was mentioning earlier, these are the things that you either keep your job or you don’t keep your job if things go sideways.
So I thought that the process was really, I wouldn't say it was so difficult, but there were a lot of hard conversations and it's just like never ending. It was six to eight months, but I will say the moment we got to the end zone and we finished, I've never been more gratified with doing the hard thing. I think the hardest thing has the biggest reward, but it may not feel like it in the journey.
[Bill Kenney]
You said it. We are hyper aware that that process, which is this weekly turn, is very challenging for the reasons you've just expressed, right? This weekly turn of meet internally on Mondays, meet with us on Tuesday. You also have a PM check-in, which is on Wednesday. Then there's us heads down building in the background shipping on Friday. What are y'all gonna, you have to talk about it on Monday, so you're kind of gonna be reviewing it on the weekend. It does add a level of high-paced touch and accountability, like both parties have to be highly accountable the whole time.
I would throw it out there, Phil, that sometimes more often than not a make or break of a project is not the work itself or even the people. It is that dilemma we're talking about, and someone like yourself able to bridge and serve as the throughway. If the person that is charged with that either hates that job or is not good at it, the project suffers, and sometimes to the point where they fail, actually it falls apart. So that's kudos to you. That's why I stopped there. All right, John.
[Jonathan Pogact]
Yeah, it's pretty similar. To put a label on it. It's the commitment, and the enduring commitment required for this, the weeklies, the biweeklies, the dailies, the everything. Like sometimes you just don't want to do it, you know, just being honest. You wanna do a mind mapping, uh, exercise that's going to last an hour with 10 people on a zoom to discuss whether or not we should go dark green or light green? Not really. But important to the process.
And your team explained how important it is, right? Because I think it's always easy. Um, I worked for a founder that, um, I'll paraphrase his, his quote. He said, everything goes back to nature if you let it, which basically means if you don't tend to something, or if you don't constantly improve, you're gonna go back to your old habits and probably worse inevitably.
You ever see a store close and then two weeks later you're looking at the parking lot and you're like, what is going on? Like you see plants and trees and you're like, it's only been two weeks. Those two weeks would've killed us, right? If we took two weeks off from paying attention or not having our hands on the wheel.
I do think anyone that is considering a rebrand or even a website redesign, whatever it may be, you do need somebody that can champion that process that will be ruthless about it. And that's, that's what our guy, Phil, here, you know, was able to do. These are texts on the weekend, Friday night.
Don't forget. Right. Put in your comments, don't put your comments there. Put them here. Right. And all of that is super important because everybody has something else to do. Of course, this is obviously very important to our organization and there was no way any of us were gonna let this fail. But, um, it's hard work. Definitely hard.
[Bill Kenney]
It’s that long term commitment. Going to the gym every day,
[Jonathan Pogact]
I think that's a great way of putting it. You know, if you start going to the gym and you haven't gone to the gym, or it's been a long time, ooh, those first few days are gonna be tough. The first few weeks are gonna be tough. You're gonna be sore, you're not gonna wanna work through it.
You know, you're in pain, you ache. But that's like the beginning process of us working together, right? It's like. Oh, what do you mean? You know, some people on the team hate magenta. I love magenta. But you know, it's like we're not doing that right. Or, we haven't spoken about this, dropping the AI from our name, right?
That sounds scary, but at the end of the day, it really wasn't, right? It wasn't hard. It wasn't as hard as we thought it was. It was not scary. You led us the whole way and we had a champion on our side to keep us accountable.
[Bill Kenney]
Oh yeah. Which really is critical. I truly mean it when projects fail for that one weak point. And it's, from my perspective, having gone through 600 to throw the number out there, rebrand projects, 15 years is a long time. It's a shame when that happens because of that being the weak point because you know everything else is working. But that kind of conduit in between, to relay and hold both parties accountable and be able to navigate all that. We're gonna do this, and this is why it matters in keeping that whole train on time, man, you'd hate per project to fail because of that. It's hard enough to do the other stuff. Picking colors and type and what are we gonna say and what does this word mean versus what's that word mean?
Those things are already hard enough. All right, so let's get to the, let's get to the fun side. What was the most rewarding aspect of the project for each of you in any aspect of the project?
[Philip LaChance]
That's tough. There's a lot of great things. I will say once it launched, and you know this is funny, we finished at the end of December and then we did an accelerated launch. We were ready to drop this thing out, so like we sprinted for a couple weeks. But you would've thought that, I was like, oh no, it's too soon. We need two, three months to kind of do on top of their work.
And then we got the pressure on to do the two, three weeks and then I've never seen a group of people just figure it out and just put out everything together. Boom, got the launch ready. That was gratifying the day we launched and I was able to post about it and dude, there was a weight of like we did the hardest thing we could possibly do and now can share it with the world and kind of go from there and then to go back on being the driver of the project.
My main reason when it came to like we had a Focus Lab text group, but literally had it like just with the executives in us. The growth that will come from this, the ROI and the evaluation of our company will skyrocket if we do this with a hundred percent effort. And I was like, I will not let anyone steer this in the wrong direction. I will fight to get us there because I just know it's what's gonna matter in the end.
We're gonna look back and not care what took us, you know, it took probably 12, 13 months of the year to finish, to get here. But it's gonna make the biggest difference in the next two, three years. It's gonna be worth it.
[Bill Kenney]
That's right. Yep. And those nights and weekends of reviewing a thing or joining a meeting to do another working session feel minute, right, in the long run compared to it. They will be behind us. John, what was your most rewarding moment in the project?
[Jonathan Pogact]
I think when anybody is looking to relaunch a brand or design or whatever it may be, right? For us, it was a complete rebuild. both internally and externally. You know, they think about how much more money can we make from this? Right? How much better valuation can we get? How many more users and leads can we get?
Of course, right. Everyone's looking for ways to justify it. But what was really most gratifying to me is how our employees and our team members embraced it. Because that's a scary moment too. You're about to reveal something for the, for the first time mostly we did a little change management with the leaders to warm them up and show them what was coming down the line.
But for the rest of the organization, they were seeing it for the first time. And you think through these things like, oh no, what if they think dropping the AI is gonna hurt our pipeline? Or our lead gen? Or what if these colors, what if they don't like wearing these colors? You know, you think of everything but I think every single person embraced the brand, and not only did they embrace it, they're like, yeah, that looks about right.
It felt like home, right? And I think that's really where most of the gratification came from, is we achieved what we were looking to do, and that was to match our product, right?
We wanted to elevate our brand to match the product, but also just represent who we were as a culture or company. And the fact that, you know, we're not that little scrappy startup anymore. You know, we're a world-class SaaS organization and now people can see that for themselves.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. Hell yeah. Those wins for you and that feeling that you felt in that moment. That is why I do this. That's why I like my business and wanna write a book and don't care if people hire us because I want everyone to get that high ultimately.
So pumped for you all and excited to kind of see where it continues to, to grow and as you now add on top of it, because you're beyond the sprint, you know, it's like when you were sharing that point, uh, Phil of that like final three week of like, well, should we spend more time on it to make it perfect or do we just need to get it out? It's like that final ascent at Everest. It's that final edge walk before you get like right to the top in it and it feels the most dangerous and the scariest. And I can imagine the weight that comes off the shoulders, when people get to that point, they're like, oh God, I got there, and you can almost reset now.
You can go on your next climb, uh, but you can kind of release the weight of the big project. Congrats to you both. I know my team loved working with you all, everybody that was on that project, for all the right reasons, for the energy that you brought from the, the way you pushed us and the urgency and how bought in you all were to it. That only makes our work better. So thank you both for the way you showed up.
[Jonathan Pogact]
It was a pleasure. Likewise.
[Bill Kenney]
It sounded like I was closing. It's not the end. So you launched the brand. I saw as much as I could see of the LinkedIn people jumping in. Oh wow, this looks great, but like, what have you all felt in other ways that I wouldn't be able to see since. How long has it been live now? Has it been 30 days? A month or something?
[Philip LaChance]
I think it was February 9th it went down.
[Bill Kenney]
Okay.
[Philip LaChance]
Almost a month.
[Jonathan Pogact]
Feels like months ago.
[Philip LaChance]
It does.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. I don't expect you to say like we've seen, you know, our conversion rates go up by x. I know it's too early for that, but I'm just curious as to what other things are you feeling now that are a result of it?
[Philip LaChance]
I would say like, I think the thing John mentioned too is like, you would've thought that we haven't gotten any negative feedback. Like we think that's scary. Like, wait, we're, we were waiting, we were waiting for like, when's the ball gonna drop? But it never came.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah.
[Philip LaChance]
Now it's like, okay, first time the business has finally built the foundation of who we are with the brand in mind. Now it's the next phase. Like, dude, I'm all in on AI design and operations, and kind of scaling like, what's next?
How do we go from this leaner team to kind of go into the next phase? 2024 was brand refreshed, 2025 was the rebrand project, 2026 is global domination.
[Bill Kenney]
Let's go.
[Philip LaChance]
And Jon want demand gen getting stuff happening. There's no behind the scenes projects anymore.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. Heard.
[Philip LaChance]
So yeah, there's a lot of urgency right now, we are ready to dominate and get after it. And it's from engineering, product, to even the team that John's building with marketing. It's gonna be pretty awesome, but you can't get there without doing the really hard thing the year before.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said. And I think that is actually the question. It's not like, what, what are you seeing as a result? But I think it is more like, what's next now? Now that you have that concrete slab foundation that's hardened.
[Jonathan Pogact]
What Kobe says, the job's not done. Now we're in the playoffs. We've gotta win the deal. Right? And, um, for that it's execution. Now's the hard part. You know, ensuring we've got good brand continuity across all of our channels, all of our communications, um, and a slipup will happen.
There's no brand police around, you know, that's going to put anybody on suspension or write them up. But, you know, those are things that you do have to be mindful of, right? Because repetition is going to help burn that impression of who you are and what you stand for over a period of time.
And you don't want to go backwards. What I've really noticed too is how we show up. And again, it's not about the logo and the colors, but it's how fluid everything is, right? It's the confidence in our salespeople when they're at a trade show and we've got this beautiful backdrop now with these beautiful materials and brand that people can really identify with and, and really feel, it's our engineering and product team, right?
They see what we are on the outside. They wanna continue to do amazing work on the inside, right? we're all rowing in the same direction, so it's more than just marketing and can we generate more interest in sales? A lot of it is internal. The first impression somebody gets about us now is, this is a world class SaaS organization. What do you do, right?
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. Hell yeah. And worth it, right? The confidence bit you mentioned I hear a lot and I just wanna stop and highlight how important that is and how that must feel to you all. I've had multiple people on this show specifically, and sometimes even the founders say, you just can't imagine how much more confident I feel when I show up in a room with people that I just felt like I didn't belong with, or felt inferior or felt like an imposter if I was trying to sell them on our services and now I feel like I'm supposed to be here. Right?
I can only imagine. That's what it feels like. When you see these epic makeovers for people on TV and all of a sudden they've gotten their hair cut and they're all clean cut and they've got some like fresh clothes and just the way they walk and carry themselves is different, and whether it's conscious or subconscious, that carries through everything. The same thing happens within a business, and you are basically highlighting that, that confidence. There’s ROI there. It's hard to measure in a spreadsheet, but it’s there.
[Philip LaChance]
That's so true. I've never even seen our employees starting to post as much as we all are, we're kind of being much louder as a group, but like confidently, not just because like, Hey go do this thing now, good luck. And then it's like radio silence because there's not a good system.
Now it's like, oh man, we're the cool guys? You're like, oh dude, of course I wanna be. want to be aligned with that brand? You guys made us very confident, because we're borrowing the credibility of like, you've worked with these billion dollar valuation companies. We are now a part of that group. Like, okay, I feel like I'm supposed to be in the room. Same thing with like myself as a designer. Like I was confident before. But now the branding we have now, now I'm like, okay, I'm a lead designer and the brand looks awesome. This also makes me more confident.
[Bill Kenney]
Hell yeah.
[Philip LaChance]
I've never had more people kind of get eyeballs looking at what we're doing now, and it feels like we're getting to a place that like we're disrupting, we're here to disrupt again, which is pretty awesome.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, yeah. Yes. But what did you say? I mean, the 10 year mark, is that the number you threw out? Right?
[Jonathan Pogact]
Not yet eight.
[Bill Kenney]
Eight years. Okay. Yeah. Still deep enough where like a fresh change of disruption within the organization is a whole new launching pad of energy and momentum and wind in the sails, and that's generally what these projects are as well.
Again, it doesn't happen to this degree though, without wonderful people on the other side, right? It's not just Focus Lab. We don't just go into any organization and magically make them great. The product has to be great. The vision has to be clear. The teams have to now execute like the both of you all on the backside of it. But those two groups together become like a one plus one equals three.
We're proud to have been on your journey, right? To play a small part in that. Know that we're always around. I'll definitely be interested to see and even share notes on how AI is influencing the brand work very specifically. That is a topic that's really top of mind in the org right now.
[Jonathan Pogact]
Sounds great. Yeah, we're playing a lot in AI, a lot in Claude OpenAI, MCP coming out soon. Lots of exciting things.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah, it's, it's a wild world out there right now. And then we want to be, because of the types of clients we have, which is you all, B2B Tech AI, that's the bleeding edge of what we're talking about.
[Philip LaChance]
Your brand, I will say, is the number one thing. Your brand is what's gonna matter the most. Everyone's doing the same thing and it's so easy, your brand is gonna be the biggest differentiator and you can't fake that. You can't type that into a little prompt, and it's gonna spit out this amazing brand, at least not yet.
[Bill Kenney]
Yeah. You know, there's still an emotional intelligence side to this journey we both just went on that you can't prompt your way to. There's still some version of the thinking that needs to happen, that is not just the ins and outs, the ones and zeros, right?
So that's gonna be the interesting part to see what does that separation look like over the next couple years? How much more of the emotional layer do we do? And how much less of the output layer? I don't know yet. I don't know, but I'm gonna find out myself too. I’m not gonna wait to be told. I'm gonna find out. It's fun.
Alright, fellas, until we cross paths again, I'm gonna be out here hooting and hollering. Cheering you all on. Let me know how I can be supportive on that front.
[Jonathan Pogact]
Yep. Likewise, appreciate everything you've done.
[Bill Kenney]
All right, dudes.
[Philip LaChance]
Thank you guys.
[Bill Kenney]
Cheers.
